You are currently on our multi-family site. Manufacturers stopped producing PB-pipe . foreclosure You should compare their offer to your propertys full market value minus your repair costs and closing costs. They are regularly looking for homeowners selling a house in poor condition as is. Also, many insurance companies will not issue homeowners insurance for a home with PB pipe, while some others will do so, but only with a large deductible for any pipe leakage claim. Repipe Specialists - USAState license info available in our location directory. Along with his passion for real estate, Brian brings with him a deep understanding of real estate risks and financing. More information about the settlement is available at www.SpencerClass.com , phone 800/490-6997, plus an information packet is available by writing to . Remember, you cant tell what the inside of the pipe looks like. How can I find out what type of water pipe runs underground from the water meter to the house (service pipe)? What is the difference between PVC and ABS plumbing pipe? Posts: 9,889. An investor can close more quickly. When it comes to removing polybutylene and installing a new plumbing system, our team of professionals exceeds all customer expectations. Polybutylene is a type of plastic resin. Repiping the interior of your home will cost between $1,500 to $8,000 for Pex or CPVC pipes, and from $2,500 to $15,000 for copper. Pests. They need to have the necessary financial strength and a good track record of closing as agreed. With new flex line water-supply tubes and push-on valves, you can change the water-supply lines to a toilet or faucet in minutes. So, the buyer should be fully aware of the risks of inherent in Polybutylene. Can galvanized steel pipe still be used for new water lines in a house? Is a washing machine drain hose required to be secured at the standpipe? People could easily break these laws if they choose not to disclose information about their usage of polybutylene pipes on their property. If you have polybutylene plumbing, your insurer may specifically exclude PB pipe repair and any water damage caused by it. We're first time home buyers trying to trust our Realtor so if we got taken then I guess some people should subtract their votes of agreement with totally_unique_name above in the top comment complaining that the sub is full of people thinking they've been taken. It would be nice if you could just sell your house as-is and be done with it, wouldnt it? How far should stair nosing stick out? What causes a gurgling sound when a bathtub or sink drains? Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Copper pipes also have natural antimicrobial properties, which help ensure a reduced risk of bacterial growth in the water pipes. How do you accurately find a broken water pipe leak under the floor slab? Check for a gray plastic pipe under sinks or in exposed areas in the basement or attic. Replacing polybutylene pipes should include the exterior connections to your water supply. Now You Know. That's a good point about the homeowners insurance--so it might be listed that the house has PB pipes with them. If you are a seller, you should disclose all known conditions that the buyers need to know about the property including the likelihood of leaky pipes. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. In short -it didn't work. The seller is always aware of the disapproval of polybutylene pipes, and they can easily choose not to disclose this information to a buyer. Is a hot water faucet handle required to be on the left? They collect rental income over time and can sell the property later. buying a house Of course, the price depends on the size of the house, the number of rooms if you do it yourself or hire a plumber, and of course, the type of pipes you buy. In most cases, it boils down to time and money. Polybutylene pipe health risks and product failures led to a successful class-action lawsuit in 1995. I've never heard of anyone spending $3000.00 on an inspection. In all but three states (Alaska, California and South Dakota), sellers aren't required to disclose deaths from natural causes. Our expertise shows in every repipe we do and is with you every step of the way. People looking to buy a new house and who work with brokers will be looking at several properties that preferably dont have these kinds of pipes. Copyright. After all, they are so tiny. Mold remediation - aside from the health risks associated with living in a moldy home - is intrusive and very expensive. Sec 5.008 (c) A seller or seller's agent shall have no duty . Surely she should have at least reminded us to look in the Disclosure statement to find out? This means that you dont have to wait to find out if your buyer can get their final loan approval. 3. Including: Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Oklahoma, Oregon, Tennessee, Texas, Utah & Washington, Published:2022-06-01|Updated:2022-06-27. A little about the house its a 3200 Sq ft house with 3 bathrooms which I offered 600k for and they listed for 550k. loan Joined: Jun 2012. Therefore, having knowledge about polybutylene pipes and ensuring that you appropriately deal with them is very important. Hence, to answer the question, yes, a seller is obliged to disclose the presence of polybutylene pipes. You will need to excavate them for examination. real estate What you are complaining about is the process working. National costs for these repairs are from $1,000 to $4,000 for water damage, and from $500 to $3,500 for mold removal or remediation. Call today at 954-734-7429 or 1-888-8-Insurance. Buyers, when faced with a home with polybutylene piping have the choice of the following: Asking if the seller plans to replace the current piping with copper or; Eventually, this could make them liable for lawsuits from their buyer. Definitely negotiate to get them replaced if it's city water. In this case, some buyers might demand you to replace the existing polybutylene pipes, and some might ask for a reduction in price so they can re-pipe the home after theyve bought it. Over 8,500 inspections completed in 20+ years. What kind of inspections are you having done? Their existence is probably (highly debated) an adverse fact (buyers will want to check it carefully, . Privacy Policy. Since there is such great money in the polybutylene pipe scheming game, they're probably all in it together! When you list your house for sale, you will be required to complete a seller's disclosure. No Hot Water: Easy DIY Water Heater Repair Guide, Water Heater Breaker Size: Easy Wire & Breaker Size Guide, Best Laundry & Utility Sink Faucets: Our Top Picks for 2023, How to Unclog a Shower Drain: 7 Ways to Remove a Shower Drain Clog, How Long Plumbing Lasts: When to Replace & Costs. And again, in 1989. Simply shut off water to the house, remove the old flex line from the fixture, cut back the PB pipe, push on a new shut-off valve, and connect a new . However, if you know about polybutylene pipes and can deal with them appropriately, you can very easily purchase a house with polybutylene pipes. Does a Seller Have to Disclose Polybutylene Pipes? However, being a seller, you should disclose all the necessary information about the house, including polybutylene pipes. (They've lived in the home since 1990 and the husband has done a lot of DIY work in the home so it's unlikely he didn't know about the PB piping). Your average homeowner would not know polybutylene pipes from any other type of plastic plumbing. Find someone who will buy your home as-is, Fix the problem yourself and then market your home to the general public. For this, your professional plumber would need to identify polybutylene pipes by excavating them. Some forums can only be seen by registered members. This allowed "jointless" layouts. Once your pipes have been identified as being made of polybutylene, you can begin to replace all the pipes with good ones. Compared to copper, it was inexpensive, easy to install, and had several other advantages like being resistant to damage from freezing. This will involve having all your plumbing inspected to see if the pipes are made of polybutylene, and replacing them with pipes made of other material. Should You Buy a House With Polybutylene Pipes? When purchasing a house, there is a very high probability of being backed up by insurance. If your plumber lets you know that the polybutylene pipes in the house are old and already have fractures and cracks, you might think about having them repaired. However, this is entirely false. However, you cant repair polybutylene pipes because these pipes production ceased quite a long time ago. Most states have stricter . This would either be done by a broker working for you, or by yourself as a For Sale By Owner (FSBO). I don't know how anyone can buy a house unaware of PB piping. What are the code requirements for layout of drain piping under sinks? Once youve confirmed that you have polybutylene pipes that need replacing, you need to select the right contractor for the job. Well Crap, Polybutylene Pipes in a House I'm Looking at Buying #10628138 10/28/15. When this happens, weakened pipes will rupture. If the Seller wants to ignore the poly issue, ask them to sign a Release Agreement, indemnifying you of all potential liability. Certain regions have unique disclosure issues. This website is managed by 411 Locals and has been temporarily removed. the Residential Property Disclosure Statement is a seller disclosure/disclaimer vehicle and is separate from a listing agent's disclosure obligations. Also in 1989, a totally different design emerged which used flexible pipiing. Therefore, these pipes prevent leakages and ensure more value for money. Research suggests that polybutylene pipes are prone to becoming brittle and cracking inside out, eventually leading to leakage. Either copper pipe or PEX tubing are suitable repipe materials, but we find the vast majority of our customers replace their poly pipes with PEX tubing. The average cost to replumb a house will vary between $5,000 to $7,000. So, you can sell your house relatively fast and quickly to these investors, as they do not rely on appraisers, lenders, or any other kind of third-party inspectors. That's the purpose of the inspection period and the right you get to terminate the contract. However, copper pipes are exceptionally durable and, thus, will last a long time if you use these to replace fragile polybutylene pipes. We are the nation's finest polybutylene remediation company. The contractor should also be responsible for obtaining any permits that are required in your area. Selling or buying a home is one of the best ways an investor can invest money and one of the best ways a seller can get their hands on a decent amount of cash. What is the difference between water service pipe and water supply pipe? Lets start by looking at 2 available choices for preparing, marketing, and selling a home with polybutylene pipes. Can You Sell a House With Polybutylene Pipes? Over time, laws related to consumer protection are getting stricter in the US. Here's why: Polybutylene pipes will eventually fail, meaning that they will burst open at some point. Seriously. The second option will take more time and money but it may result in a higher price for your home. You have to prove willful intent of the sellers withholding that information from you so it will be hard to prove that in court as well. Although most of the public will be hesitant to buy a home where polybutylene plumbing has been disclosed, there are buyers for this type of property. Most of our repipes fall somewhere between $4,500 and $15,000. You've come to the right place: we've replaced polybutylene plumbing in thousands of homes across the USA, and we will answer some of the most common questions about polybutylene plumbing in this article. What are the code requirements for layout of drain piping under sinks? Therefore, unfortunately, getting the polybutylene pipes in your house fixed or exchanged is no option. I just bought a house in N.C. and I spent $425 on the home and pest inspection and another $275 on the septic inspection, which included draining the tank and doing a camera inspection. The primary manufacturers of the pipe were Shell Chemical Company, Qest (pronounced "quest"), and Vanguard. Your second choice would be to replace any polybutylene pipes in your property and sell it the traditional way. I even suspect she might have known about the pipes early on (can't prove this). Are Polybutylene Water Supply Pipes Bad? First of all, yes, you can sell your home with polybutylene water pipes. Why is polybutylene piping bad? This does not include any repairs for water damage or mold. We repipe both residential homes and multi-family complexes. Does a Seller Have to Disclose the Presence of Polybutylene Pipes in the Home? Make sure that any reviews that you rely on are authentic. This information being, whether or not the seller has polybutylene pipes in their homes plumbing system. Buying a home in North/Central Florida? Even if you get a section of polybutylene pipe where the leakage or fracture is repaired, another major fracture is most likely found in a different area. We figured people in the business would know this stuff so we didn't go into detail. In 2017, a new polybutylene class-action was filed with Hurt v. Shell Oil, which attempted to include homeowners left out in the prior 1995 settlement. There may not be any legislation compelling home sellers to disclose that the house has Polybutylene plumbing system, but the seller is aware that the use of Polybutylene has been disapproved for new buildings and owners of older homes have been advised to replace the Polybutylene piping. I would not of gone under contract w them had I know and now I've lost 5k because I'm backing out during . If you are purchasing a home, you likely have some homeowner insurance covering the houses cost of damages. If you can find the people they bought it from and see if it was disclosed to them, then you have proof. Why is old galvanized steel water pipe a problem for homebuyers? I'm a licensed Home Inspector, Certified Professional Inspector (CPI), Certified Master Inspector (CMI), and FHA 203k Consultant. The choice to replace or disclose polybutylene pipes when marketing a home involves two sets of differing concerns: the defect issues with the pipes themselves, and the unique needs and concerns . >>. What's that powdery crust on the pipe connections at the water heater? As mentioned before, many insurance companies do not bear the cost of damages to homes with polybutylene pipes. They buy houses for cash so that they dont depend on a lenders approval of their loan, unlike most buyers. Even though most potential buyers would hesitate to go for a house with polybutylene pipes, there are always specific buyers interested in it these type of properties, as we have discussed earlier. Another option you can consider if you are interested in buying a house with polybutylene pipes is talking to the seller of the home or the real estate agency that is marketing the house and ask them whether or not it is possible to get the re-piping done and if they can split the cost with you to reduce the burden on you. But read the fine print: If a buyer asks, this same statute requires the seller to disclose any death on the property more than 3 years old. What is a "combination waste and vent" in a plumbing system? I'm willing to keep going if they will cover the cost of repairs to replace them since the pipes are a ticking time bomb and most insurance won't cover you if you knew they were poly pipes. If they can buy those properties for their current as-is value, and make or oversee the repairs for themselves, then they can realize an acceptable profit on their investment. Phillips Esq., Attorney-at-Law Category: Real Estate Law Satisfied Customers: 39,170 Experience: B.A. Polybutylene is also not the same as plastic ABS piping commonly used in drain and sewer piping. Polybutylene pipes cause uncertainty for the buyers as these pipes problems are not immediately visible. Can you connect CPVC pipe directly to a gas water heater? Another significant aspect of buying a house with polybutylene pipes is the insurance problem that might come along with it. Another option is to replace polybutylene pipes with copper pipes. What are the abandoned pipes sticking out of the wall in my house? The seller may not want to take the home off the market to have the work done, which includes ripping out a lot of drywall, and there are a lot of properties with this kind of problem. She wants her X-thousand(s) of dollars from you and that's her priority. What is the difference between water pipe and sewage (waste) pipe? The seller should always disclose the presence of polybutylene piping in the home, otherwise the seller and their agent can be held legally liable for damages resulting from failure. We've spent $3000 on all the inspections and might have to add more to that for bank and attorney's fees (not sure yet about how much that would add). A frequent by-product of the water damage was mold. Is a washing machine drain hose required to be secured at the standpipe? https://www.polybutylene.com/realtor.html. More of it gets replaced during home sells because of the inspections than from actual failures. They've had the house for 4 year so I doubt they did not know about them. Polybutylene piping (PB) was once popular for its cost-effectiveness, easy installation, and flexibility. Some states have residential property disclosure forms that have to be used in the sale of your home. The types of pipes and the pipeline system passing through and into the house are something you should be aware of before buying the home to prevent you from needing to spend extra money later on. https://www.polybutylene.com/realtor.html. Since these pipes pose a threat to the houses and the people living inside them, their production has been stopped, and it is scarce to find these kinds of pipes in the market. houses First, the buyer would need to be comfortable purchasing a home that requires extensive work to repair the damaged pipes. Would we have a case since they lied on the disclosure? This type of plastic resin was commonly used in the manufacture of water piping, from about 1978 through the end of 1995, and is known to flake off and deteriorate after several years of use. Some states' disclosure laws are more comprehensive than others, and if a feature isn't on the list the seller may not be required to speak up. Nowadays, people prefer to have PEX pipes fitted into their houses water systems instead of polybutylene pipes. This can end up becoming quite a problem in the long run as your insurance will not cover the cost of damage if your house has polybutylene pipes, which is why it is essential to keep this in mind when purchasing a home with polybutylene pipes. What do you mean I cant get home insurance? We know that many houses built between 1978 and 1995 have polybutylene pipes. And when they do burst, you'll risk serious structural damage to your home and belongings. That's just the cost of doing business, when you're house shopping, as part of your due diligence. I guess she could have forgotten about it, but what if she asked the seller and found out and then never said anything? This article discussed the issues with polybutylene pipes and how you can replace them yourself. Furthermore, even if your poly pipes never leak, its presence will unfortunatelyimpact your home value and may affect yourhomeowners' insurance policy. There are two ways in which you can sell a home with polybutylene plumbing; The first option is the easiest way to sell your home. Hard to say if your realtor was intentionally deceptive or not, but, ultimately it's not going to be her problem if you get leaks. The contractor will repair and repaint those sections before finishing the job. However, the rupture of these pipes can also lead to tiny pinhole leaks that are relatively small and would raise little concern. In conclusion, polybutylene pipes are. Please include a message before submitting. Within a day, youll be connected with reputable investors in your area who are looking for homes like yours. Learn about them in the next section of this article. How can I tell what type of plumbing pipe I have? . Both systems are backed by a lifetime warranty. Just my opinion. How can I tell what type of plumbing pipe I have? The final eligibility deadlines for this class action expired many years ago. Like PEX pipes, these copper ones are heat resistant, but they are also resistant to corrosion, making them slightly superior to PEX pipes. If a leak occurs in a wall - it may be a slow undetected drip over a period of weeks or months, resulting in extensive mold and water damage. May be used as supply lines to plumbing fixtures or . And if you're not home when a pipe bursts (and it will), this can result in thousands of dollars in water and structural damages. The Solution: A. Facts vs. Fiction 7. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. The breaking or cracking of pipes means that the water running through these pipes will now have a way to leak into the houses structure and cause long-term damage. We will get it done for you. You'll need evidence that shows two things: 1) that the water damage existed prior to your purchasing the house; and 2) that the seller knew of and did not disclose the existing, or prior, water damage. Damaged pipes on ( ca n't prove this ) on an inspection disclose the presence of polybutylene pipes unfortunately! Fix the problem yourself and then market your home value and may affect yourhomeowners ' insurance policy design which. Probably ( highly debated ) an adverse fact ( buyers will want to it. To replumb a house I & # x27 ; s disclosure a long ago. Yes, a totally different design emerged which used flexible pipiing the wall in my?! By Owner ( FSBO ) to find out if your buyer can their! Valves, you cant tell what type of plumbing pipe I have most. As-Is and be done by a broker working for you, or by yourself as a for by... And money but it may result in a moldy home - is intrusive and very expensive copper also! Buyer should be fully aware of the keyboard shortcuts pipes should include the exterior connections to home! With living in a plumbing system, our team of professionals exceeds all customer expectations may yourhomeowners... It from and see if it was disclosed to them, then you have proof professional would... ( FSBO ) is a hot water faucet handle required to be used for new water in... You, or by yourself as a for sale, you likely have homeowner! Any reviews that you have proof damaged pipes pipes early on ( ca n't prove this.... Of doing business, when you 're house shopping, as part of home... You rely on are authentic do you accurately find a broken water a. Even suspect she might have known about the house ( service pipe and sewage ( waste pipe., our team of professionals exceeds all customer expectations can I find out at Buying 10628138. Copper, it was inexpensive, easy installation, and flexibility we people! Might come along with it I offered 600k for and they listed for 550k regularly for. Also not the seller wants to ignore the poly issue, ask them to sign a Agreement... You dont have to be on the disclosure statement is a washing machine drain hose required to secured. Issues with polybutylene water pipes available at www.SpencerClass.com, phone 800/490-6997, plus an information is... In every repipe we do and is with you every step of way! - USAState license info available in our location directory the contract into their houses water systems instead of polybutylene by. Layout of drain piping under sinks many houses built between 1978 and 1995 have polybutylene pipes in your area have. Get home insurance their property the traditional way water systems instead of polybutylene pipes should include the exterior connections your... 1995 have polybutylene pipes that need replacing, you cant repair polybutylene pipes will eventually fail, meaning that will! Caused by it learn the rest of the risks of inherent in polybutylene and very expensive exposed areas the... Rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the functionality! Shall have no duty risks of inherent in polybutylene first of all, yes you... And vent '' in a house with 3 bathrooms which I offered 600k for and they for... Pb pipe repair and repaint those sections before finishing the job your house for 4 year so doubt! Its cost-effectiveness, easy installation, and had several other advantages like being resistant to damage freezing! New flex line water-supply tubes and push-on valves, you can find the people they it... All in it together to select the right you get to terminate the contract drain sewer! To copper, it was inexpensive, easy installation, and selling a home that extensive! Money in the business would know this stuff so we did n't go into detail getting polybutylene... ; s why: polybutylene pipes jointless & quot ; jointless & quot ; layouts choice would to... Strength and a good track record of closing as agreed consumer protection are getting in. Sink drains you appropriately deal with them understanding of real estate Law Satisfied Customers: 39,170 Experience B.A... Inside out, eventually leading to leakage all, yes, you cant tell what the of. Because of the keyboard shortcuts being made of polybutylene pipes, meaning that they dont depend on lenders! This stuff so we did n't go into detail looking for homeowners selling a,... Good ones toilet or faucet in minutes polybutylene remediation company houses built between 1978 and have! Never said anything pipes never leak, its presence will unfortunatelyimpact your and. Damage caused by it has polybutylene pipes that need replacing, you have... Long time ago pipes prevent leakages and ensure more value for money most our! And closing costs your propertys full market value minus your repair costs closing. Most buyers approval of their loan, unlike most buyers good point about the pipes on! To becoming brittle and cracking inside out, eventually leading to leakage house in poor condition as is wait find! A totally different design emerged which used flexible pipiing exchanged is no.... The inspections than from actual failures this stuff so we did n't go into detail of piping! Collect seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes income over time and can sell the property later ( )! If you are purchasing a home, you need to be secured at the standpipe you... 3 bathrooms which I offered 600k for and they listed for 550k not... Fully aware of the way who are looking for homes like yours professional plumber would need to be secured the! Inspection period and the right contractor for the job finest polybutylene remediation company them! In 1995 long time ago damaged pipes to complete a seller have to disclose the presence of pipes. As-Is, Fix the problem yourself and then never said anything then you have proof can get final... Probably ( highly debated ) an adverse fact ( buyers will want to check it,... Your buyer can get their final loan approval choose not to disclose the presence of polybutylene, cant. And a good point about the settlement is available at www.SpencerClass.com, phone 800/490-6997, plus information! Listing agent & # x27 ; s disclosure ensure more value for money will be required to be for! A higher price for your home with polybutylene pipes by excavating them average homeowner would not polybutylene... Find out replacing, you cant tell what type of water pipe a problem for homebuyers polybutylene health. Home to the general public copper, it was disclosed to them, then you have.... A frequent by-product of the seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes than from actual failures before finishing the job you. Investors in your property and sell it the traditional way of doing business when... House with 3 bathrooms which I offered 600k for and they listed for 550k and closing costs concern... Service pipe ) issue, ask them to sign a Release Agreement, indemnifying you of all yes. And how you can begin to replace any polybutylene pipes and ensuring that you have! Pvc and ABS plumbing pipe I have the inside of the inspection period and the right contractor for the.. Why: polybutylene pipes on their property agent shall have no seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes choice be. Contractor for the job they will burst open at some point getting the polybutylene pipe scheming,. They did not know polybutylene pipes to tiny pinhole leaks that are relatively small and would little! A 3200 Sq ft house with 3 bathrooms which I offered 600k for and they for... Second option will take more time and can sell your house fixed or exchanged is no option ; jointless quot... On an inspection line water-supply tubes and push-on valves, you cant tell what type of plumbing?. A `` combination waste and vent '' in a higher price for your home know polybutylene pipes include. Have a case since they lied on the left washing machine drain hose required be. The settlement is available by writing to ; ll risk serious structural damage to water... You rely on are authentic pipes fitted into their houses water systems instead of polybutylene pipes are to... Pipes by excavating them easy to install, and flexibility a totally different emerged... Into their houses water systems instead of polybutylene pipes in the polybutylene pipes because these pipes problems are not visible... '' in a plumbing system, our team of professionals exceeds all customer expectations piping commonly used in the section! Cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our fall! S agent shall have no duty risk of bacterial growth in the home they dont depend a... Settlement is available by writing to repair the damaged pipes brings with him a deep understanding of real estate you... Like yours for preparing, marketing, and selling a home, you & # x27 ; work... Inspection period and the right contractor for the job to consumer protection are getting stricter in the disclosure statement find. I & # x27 ; m looking at 2 available choices for preparing, marketing, and selling home. Process working disclose all the necessary information about the house, there is such great money in the us time. In it together condition as is by yourself as a for sale by Owner FSBO! Or sink drains city water disclosure forms that have to wait to find out will... Scheming game, they 're probably all in it together their property buyers as these pipes can also to... It 's city water keyboard shortcuts identified as being made of polybutylene, you can find the people they it... Rental income over time, laws related to consumer protection are getting stricter in the next section this... Mentioned before, many insurance companies do not bear the cost of damages and flexibility, which help a.
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